Greece & the EU

[really]

Do Greek people think being a part of the EU has improved their lives and how?

[Ellinas]

The EU helped Greece economically in many occasions. Mostly with the "Cofinanced Development Programmes" of KPS. KPS are projects of the EU which target economical counterpart development in various parts of Europe.

A lot of structural projects in Greece were sponsored by these programmes. For example the underground subway of Athens was sponsored by EU at 50%. EU also sponsored a part of the Rio-Antirrio bridge and many other big structures that were built in Greece the last 10 years.

These EU projects also sponsored a lot of Greek business who needed help with the "Leader" programmes. These were programmes for the development of businesses, mostly businesses of the European districts, countryside. A lot Greek businesses were helped by these programmes, mostly in the Greek countryside: like rural hotels and other accomondation, organized farms, factories etc.

Besides this in some occasions the government received sponsoring from the EU, in order to fulfill some of their policies. If these policies were approved by the EU of course.

So I will have to say that Greece had economical benefits from the EU.
Socially and culturally, I would not say that Greece benefited something from EU.

[really]

:0DD990EE3AE443BC84E

Yes, indeed, Ellinas, there have been many economic benefits for Greece. Was the social and cultural impact neutral or negative?

I would have thought that the American culture might have more impact, not only on Greece, but on a lot of countries in the world.

[really]

I found a related article.


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The link gives a link to the pdf file which is easier to read.

[Ellinas]

Originally Posted by really
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:0DD990EE3AE443BC84E

Yes, indeed, Ellinas, there have been many economic benefits for Greece. Was the social and cultural impact neutral or negative?

I would have thought that the American culture might have more impact, not only on Greece, but on a lot of countries in the world.

I can say that some things changed negativelly after Greece entered the EU. The best example is Education. If you read a text written by a Greek highschool student in 1970 and one written in 2007, you will see many differences. Young people now have more difficulties to express theirselves, many of them have difficulties in constructing gramatically proper sentences. And this is one small example of the problems our Educational system is facing.

However I can't say that this was a result of the entrance in EU. It can be just a coincidence that the biggest "downfall" of Greek Education started happening then and it would probably happen even if EU did not exist. Even if the number of students finishing highschool and entering Universities is bigger than it was 30-40 years ago, the Education quality is lower. As I've expressed in other thread too, I don't know if this is happening on purpose or it is a result of disinterest, but it is a fact that has to make us think more.

My personal opinion is that these changed because of other reasons not EU, so in your question I would anwser that the social and cultural impact of EU for Greece is neutral.

[chk_chillin]

to megalytero lathos tou ellinikou laou itan pou ypostirikse tous politikous pou mas ithelan stin evropaiki enosi.
mia megali enotita kai ena koino orama kai sxedio...vlakeies...oles oi xores pou einai stin evropaiki enosi, ypoferoun poly perissotero apo oti prin. to dystyxo omos gia tin xora mas einai oti to sxedio ton "megalon" tis epixeirisis E.E., einai na kanoun tis ligotero aneptygmenes xores, opos i ellada, na ginoun ta ypostirigmata, oi voithoi, oi batler tous.
se afto omos voithoun kai oi ekastote kyverniseis, pou ksepouloun tmimatika tin xora. tis epixiriseis kai tin idia mas tin gi. fantazomai oti thymaste oloi ti perasame stin peloponiso to kalokairi me tis foties. molis dyo meres prin, to topiko kanali tou Pyrgou, edeixne ena periergo reportage sto kentriko deltio eidiseon...mia omada ksenon, koitouse me idiaitero endiaferon tin perioxi tis Zaxaro....meta ksespasan oi foties kai tora pia, oloena ksefytronoun spitia stis dasikes ektaseis pou kaikan.
an loipon, o idios o ellinas, den exei synidisi kai ksepoula tin xora tou kai tous anthropous tou, ti to syzitame? gnorizo arketa kala, pos arketoi efkatastatoi ellines tis diasporas theloun na ependysoun ta xrimata tous stin ellada, alla vriskoun megalo empodio apo tin elliniki kyvernisi, i opoia den tous afinei na pane tin xora ena vima parakato. poios tha ithele alloste na ksypnisei o laos kai na dei, oti yparxei kai enallaktikos tropos zois apo afton ton dystyxo pou gnorizei tosa xronia?
milao pikra, giati zousa sto eksoteriko kai einai lypiro na gyrnas stin xora sou kai na min antexeis oute lepto na ziseis edo, epeidi kapoioi stenomyaloi mas kyvernoun, alla to xeirotero? aftoi pou tous psifizoun idi exoun eksapatithei apo tous idious sto parelthon.

[really]

Kalorisate, welcome to the forum, chk_chillin.
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Ellinas, I think that other countries may have the same problem too about the lowered education "standards" as we used to know. In Canada, there are many complaints that students entering university are not able to read and write English properly.

I think this is all due to the use of computers and the Internet. There seems to be a rise in plagiarism, especially since students need good marks to enter into universities, because more students are going to university than before. I also think that students nowadays have much more to learn and the extent and complexity of the topics make that they don't have enough time to absorb and spend time to analyze their own thoughts.

The good thing about education in Canada, I think, is that a lot of emphasis is spent on verbal communication, and that from kindergarten. As a result, even though their writing skills may be lacking, the students are pretty well prepared for the working world. A lot of of the time at work, as you must know, is spent on group meetings.

[Ellinas]

Originally Posted by chk_chillin

to megalytero lathos tou ellinikou laou itan pou ypostirikse tous politikous pou mas ithelan stin evropaiki enosi.
mia megali enotita kai ena koino orama kai sxedio...vlakeies...oles oi xores pou einai stin evropaiki enosi, ypoferoun poly perissotero apo oti prin. to dystyxo omos gia tin xora mas einai oti to sxedio ton "megalon" tis epixeirisis E.E., einai na kanoun tis ligotero aneptygmenes xores, opos i ellada, na ginoun ta ypostirigmata, oi voithoi, oi batler tous.
se afto omos voithoun kai oi ekastote kyverniseis, pou ksepouloun tmimatika tin xora. tis epixiriseis kai tin idia mas tin gi. fantazomai oti thymaste oloi ti perasame stin peloponiso to kalokairi me tis foties. molis dyo meres prin, to topiko kanali tou Pyrgou, edeixne ena periergo reportage sto kentriko deltio eidiseon...mia omada ksenon, koitouse me idiaitero endiaferon tin perioxi tis Zaxaro....meta ksespasan oi foties kai tora pia, oloena ksefytronoun spitia stis dasikes ektaseis pou kaikan.
an loipon, o idios o ellinas, den exei synidisi kai ksepoula tin xora tou kai tous anthropous tou, ti to syzitame? gnorizo arketa kala, pos arketoi efkatastatoi ellines tis diasporas theloun na ependysoun ta xrimata tous stin ellada, alla vriskoun megalo empodio apo tin elliniki kyvernisi, i opoia den tous afinei na pane tin xora ena vima parakato. poios tha ithele alloste na ksypnisei o laos kai na dei, oti yparxei kai enallaktikos tropos zois apo afton ton dystyxo pou gnorizei tosa xronia?
milao pikra, giati zousa sto eksoteriko kai einai lypiro na gyrnas stin xora sou kai na min antexeis oute lepto na ziseis edo, epeidi kapoioi stenomyaloi mas kyvernoun, alla to xeirotero? aftoi pou tous psifizoun idi exoun eksapatithei apo tous idious sto parelthon..

Πρέπει να ομολογήσουμε ότι σε κάποιο βαθμό η ΕΕ μας βοήθησε οικονομικά. Όπως είπα προηγουμένως εκτός από τα κονδύλια που απέσπασε η κυβέρνηση για έργα ξέρεις φαντάζομαι πόσες ελληνικές επιχειρήσεις έχουν βοηθηθεί από το Κοινοτικό Πλαίσιο Στήριξης, τα LEADER και άλλα παρόμοια προγράμματα.

Από εδώ και πέρα όμως δεν ξέρω πόσο η Ελλάδα μπορεί να βοηθηθεί. Ιδίως μετά τη διεύρυνση οπού θα πρέπει να προοριστούν σημαντικά κονδύλια και σε χώρες όπως η Βουλγαρία και η Ρουμανία, δε νομίζω να συνεχιστεί λήψη κονδυλιών, τουλάχιστον στο βαθμό που απολαμβάναμε μέχρι τώρα. Ίσως συμφωνήσω μαζί σου στο ότι είναι αμφίβολο αν η Ελλάδα θα έχει κάποιο ουσιαστικό όφελος από την παρουσία της στην ΕΕ.

Για το ξεπούλημα της χώρας και την κοροϊδία των πολιτικών δε χρειάζεται να πω τίποτα. Όλοι το ξέρουν και όλοι το λένε και το ξαναλένε, όλοι παραμονιούνται για τα χάλια της πολιτείας, όμως όταν έρθουν η εκλογές, κάποιο "δωράκι" θα πάρουν από τον τοπικό τους βουλευτή και θα ρίξουν πάλι την ψήφο στη ΝΔ ή στο ΠΑΣΟΚ......
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Originally Posted by really
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Kalorisate, welcome to the forum, chk_chillin.
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Ellinas, I think that other countries may have the same problem too about the lowered education "standards" as we used to know. In Canada, there are many complaints that students entering university are not able to read and write English properly.

I think this is all due to the use of computers and the Internet. There seems to be a rise in plagiarism, especially since students need good marks to enter into universities, because more students are going to university than before. I also think that students nowadays have much more to learn and the extent and complexity of the topics make that they don't have enough time to absorb and spend time to analyze their own thoughts.

The good thing about education in Canada, I think, is that a lot of emphasis is spent on verbal communication, and that from kindergarten. As a result, even though their writing skills may be lacking, the students are pretty well prepared for the working world. A lot of of the time at work, as you must know, is spent on group meetings.

You are right, the impact of computers and the Internet on this is a fact but it is not only that.

You often see Greek internet users writing in "Greeklish", meaning Greek language with Latin letters. This affects negatively the language, and it also affects the writing and grammar skills of the writers. For now this is happening only in the internet, but I am afraid for the case Greeklish will start being used in other things too, and of the negative consequences of something like this. Greeklish is only one example of the impact of computers/internet.

However as I said, I don't think this is the only reason that lead to the downfall of Education. I am saying this because you can see a difference even in the school books of the past and the present. The way they use to pass things to the students, the vividness, the ways they use to develop the brain of the student especially the younger one. In general older books are superior to the new ones.
The changes in the school books that lead to this probably had as a purpose to simplify Education. OK, I can see a logic behind such an effort, but so far the overall result is only negative....

So both this and the computers you mentioned "pushed" to reach the current situation in Greek Education. The problems are not easy to be solved, but let's hope that solutions will come soon.

[chk_chillin]

i think that greeklish in some cases help some greek people, all over the world, that cannot read greek, to understand.... i ve seen cases like the ones i mention.
απο την αλλη πιστευω οτι τα κονδυλια, εχουν απλως μπει στις τσεπες καποιων, και μικροτερο ποσο απο αυτα διατεθηκαν προς κοινο όφελος. ενα είναι βέβαιο παντως, ότι θα γινουμε σκλάβοι στην ιδια μας τη χωρα!

[really]

Interesting what you said, Ellinas. I thought that education gets more complex instead of being made simpler. But the situation in Greece may be different, you know better than me.

I agree, chk_chillin, greeklish helps non-Greek speaking people to understand Greek more easily. Myself, I read very slowly the Greek alphabet. With Greeklish, I can just pronounce the words and try to remember what they might mean (of the few words that I know). That is good for people who don't need to learn to read and write in Greek, but only to be able to "read" and communicate back.