Greek Schooling

[really]

I am very interested in schooling systems and would be interested to know some aspects of schooling in Greece, like:

1) How many foreign languages do the students have to learn in primary and high school?
Which ones are preferred by the students (English, German, etc.)? I think quite a few Greeks know French, is that right?

2) Do you have exams to enter university? What is the percentage of students passing the exams? What happens to those who fail, do they go to a technical college?

3) Is university free up to the Ph.D level or just for the Bachelor?

4) How many years is a Bachelor's Degree, in general?

5) Do Greek students get discounted fees or scholarships when they study in other countries of the European Union? Which countries offer those? How much would the tuition fees cost?

Hope someone might be able to answer my questions. Thank you.

[Apollyon]

Too many questions for me ,so little time....
I believe Ellinas is the proper man for answering such issues

[Ellinas]

Originally Posted by really
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I am very interested in schooling systems and would be interested to know some aspects of schooling in Greece, like:

1) How many foreign languages do the students have to learn in primary and high school?
Which ones are preferred by the students (English, German, etc.)? I think quite a few Greeks know French, is that right?

English is the only foreign language being teached in primary school and it's obligatory. It is teached in the last grades of primary school.
In junior highschool they are two obligatory foreign languages. English is the first and in most schools the second one is French. In some schools the students have the chance to chose between French, German and Italian as a second foreign language.
In senior highschool English is the only obligatory foreign language. A second language is optional, and it is usually chosed by students who are planning to study on foreign languages in University. The second language can be French, German, Italian or Spanish.

Note: All The above were valid 3 years ago. I can't be sure if something changed lately.

And yes, French is the most spread foreign language among Greeks, after English.

Originally Posted by really
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2) Do you have exams to enter university? What is the percentage of students passing the exams? What happens to those who fail, do they go to a technical college?.

Yes, students must give National exams to enter University. They are called "Pan-hellenic Exams" and they are given in the end of the season of the last class of senior highschool.

In Greece they are two kind of supreme schools: Universities and Technological Educational Institutes (a list of them is posted
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). According to the law their certificates are equal.

There is a point system in the Pan-hellenic exams. The maximum number of points someone can collect is about 22,000 and the maximum number depends to the kind and number of subjects the student chosed to take in the exams. Every sector in a University and TEI has a minimum number of points and beyond they accept students. As the system is right now, the lowest number of points someone can qualify for a University or TEI with is about 8,500.

The students who fail to enter a University or TEI after the Pan-hellenic exams, they can give exams again next year or study in a college or technical school (most of them are private.)

I would say the percentage of students who are entering a University or TEI every year with the current system is between 50% and 70%.

Originally Posted by really
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3) Is university free up to the Ph.D level or just for the Bachelor?

Universities and TEIs are completely free, till the degree - Even the books the students are taking are sponsored by the state. I don't know what Ph.D. is.

Colleges and technical schools are not free, as most of them are private.

Originally Posted by really
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4) How many years is a Bachelor's Degree, in general?

In University it depends to the sector (it can be 4, 5 or 6 years). In Technological Educational Institute it is 4 years (8 semesters).

Of course this is the minimum, as the majority of the students in Greece don't focus on finishing on the time, and they leave many subjects for the end. In Greece it is difficult to enter a University compared to other countries where you enter without exams, but unlike other countries, if you enter it you can't be discarded no matter if you fail subjects in a high frequency. To make you understand they are a lot of people who stay 10, 15 or even 20 years in the University.
They are some thoughts by the government for making a new law, having as a maximum limit, which will be twice as the normal time. For example someone who studies in a sector that needs 5 years, he will have to complete in 10 years or before.

Originally Posted by really
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5) Do Greek students get discounted fees or scholarships when they study in other countries of the European Union? Which countries offer those? How much would the tuition fees cost?

Hope someone might be able to answer my questions. Thank you.

From time to time they are scholarships given to students who had excellent grades, by various organizations (private-lead or state-controlled). These scholarships can be for studying in Greek Universities or in Universities abroad. I don't know more details, but I can say that scholarships from the state is not something often.

[really]

Thank you very much, Ellinas. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. This is all very interesting.

The pass rate is quite high then, I heard it used to be 10% years ago, but I am not sure if that is correct. Yes, I saw the list and it is quite impressive. I wonder if the students get to choose which university or TEI they would like to go to, or is it determined by the state, maybe based on the number of points achieved?

Wow, I did not know so many Greeks know French, I thought that German was more popular. That is nice to be able to study a second foreign language or even third, etc., when you are still young especially, it is so much easier to learn.

Is school obligatory till the students finish high school (grade 12)?

Ph.D is Doctor in Philosophy, it is also called doctorate degree. Once you get your Bachelor's Degree after 3 or 4 years, depending on the province where you study, you can get a Master's Degree after a certain number of courses and after completing a Thesis, it usually takes 1 1/2 or 2 years for that. Then you take some more courses and make another Thesis for your Ph.D. Once you get your Ph.D, you can be called Dr. Ellinas, even if you are not a physician (medical doctor). Isn't it cool?

In Canada, students can study part-time at night also to complete any of their degrees, if they are working. You just take longer to finish. Usually, people finish the Bachelor's and go to work, and later come back at night to do their Master's. University is not free and is very expensive here. The books are also very expensive.

Students in Greece are very lucky to study in university/TEI for free, especially until they graduate. Yes, I agree the government should make some changes in law to put a maximum number of years of study, otherwise it becomes a real burden to society when students are lazying around. From what you said, I understand that there are no Master's Degree programs in Greece, am I right? Maybe that explains why Greek students go abroad to study once they have their Bachelor's.

[Ellinas]

Originally Posted by really
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Thank you very much, Ellinas. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. This is all very interesting.

The pass rate is quite high then, I heard it used to be 10% years ago, but I am not sure if that is correct. Yes, I saw the list and it is quite impressive. I wonder if the students get to choose which university or TEI they would like to go to, or is it determined by the state, maybe based on the number of points achieved?

TEIs were founded in 1983 and their certificates became legally equal to the ones of Universities in 2000. So in the past Universities were considered the only institutions of supreme Education. Also, in the past decades the number of people going in school was also smaller than today, so the 10% is not a surprising number, considering these two factors. Today the number of people being educated in Greece is much higher than it was in the 70s for example. Now if the Education quality level is higher or lower than then, that's another issue.

Of course the students chose which University or TEI they would like to go to. When they finish the last class of highschool they complete a paper with a list of the Universities/TEIs they would like to go, in order. They chose University/TEI and sector. For example:
1. National Technical University of Athens -> Electrical Engineering.
2. Aristotelean University of Thessaloniki-> Theology
3.....
4.....
According to the points they will be able to collect, they go in their 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc. preference or they are completely out if their number of points isn't enough for any of what they chosed.

Originally Posted by really
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Wow, I did not know so many Greeks know French, I thought that German was more popular. That is nice to be able to study a second foreign language or even third, etc., when you are still young especially, it is so much easier to learn.

Is school obligatory till the students finish high school (grade 12)?

School is obligatory till the students finish junior highschool (grade 9). Senior highschool isn't obligatory, but 99% of the students complete it, even if they don't have any plans about supreme education.

They are some thoughts by the government though, of making senior highschool obligatory too.

Originally Posted by really
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Ph.D is Doctor in Philosophy, it is also called doctorate degree. Once you get your Bachelor's Degree after 3 or 4 years, depending on the province where you study, you can get a Master's Degree after a certain number of courses and after completing a Thesis, it usually takes 1 1/2 or 2 years for that. Then you take some more courses and make another Thesis for your Ph.D. Once you get your Ph.D, you can be called Dr. Ellinas, even if you are not a physician (medical doctor). Isn't it cool?

In Canada, students can study part-time at night also to complete any of their degrees, if they are working. You just take longer to finish. Usually, people finish the Bachelor's and go to work, and later come back at night to do their Master's. University is not free and is very expensive here. The books are also very expensive.

Students in Greece are very lucky to study in university/TEI for free, especially until they graduate. Yes, I agree the government should make some changes in law to put a maximum number of years of study, otherwise it becomes a real burden to society when students are lazying around. From what you said, I understand that there are no Master's Degree programs in Greece, am I right? Maybe that explains why Greek students go abroad to study once they have their Bachelor's.

They are Master Degree's programmes in Greece, most of the students who want to have a Master Degree prefer to continue their studies abroad (England and USA are first on the list). This sector isn't very developed in Greece to say it in other words, they don't offer what the Master Degrees abroad offer. I can see what Ph.D. is and if I am not mistaken doctor titles are awarded only by Universities abroad.

[really]

Thanks again, Ellinas.

That makes sense what you said about the 10%.

Good thing the students can choose their University/TEI.

I think if school is not obligatory till grade 12, it would be because some farmers need their children to help them. Since 99% are already doing Grade 12, it would not be difficult to pass a law to make it obligatory.