Modern Greek genes

[Prokomenos]

This is interesting to those who want to know if modern Greeks are the same as their ancestors. Well obviously most are although lets face it their is a small percentage that isnt and that can be said for every ethniticity out their.

I like coming to this website the author Dienekos Pontikos has done great research on this subject and pretty much has made and proven the point. Their are individuals who claim that modern Greeks are not the same as our ancestors because for some strange reason the ancient Greeks were a nordic race real funny if you ask me. I wont get into detail but many of you will find this interesting and you can take it to heart.

Taken from
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It's been said that modern Greeks are racially different from their ancient predecessors, having over the centuries mixed with slaves and foreigners, including Negroids, and lost an allegedly Nordic character. The scientific data, however, shows tremendous continuity and near purity among Greeks, as well as a virtual absence of Nordic racial elements since the beginning of Greek history.

Anthropology

"It is inaccurate to say that the modern Greeks are different physically from the ancient Greeks; such a statement is based on an ignorance of the Greek ethnic character.... The Greeks, in short, are a blend of [sub]racial types, of which two are most important: the Atlanto-Mediterranean and the Alpine. Dinaricism here is present, but not all pervading; true Alpines are commoner than complete Dinarics. The Nordic element is weak, as it probably has been since the days of Homer. The racial type to which Socrates belonged [Alpine] is today the most important, while the Atlanto-Mediterranean, prominent in Greece since the Bronze Age, is still a major factor. It is my personal reaction to the living Greeks that their continuity with their ancestors of the ancient world is remarkable, rather than the opposite."

(Carleton S. Coon, The Races of Europe)

Genetics

In a sample of 125 Greeks from Thessaloniki and Sarakatsani, 2 Asian-specific mtDNA sequences (M and D) were detected (1.6%). No sub-Saharan African genes were observed in this population. Therefore, non-Caucasoid maternal ancestry in Greece is very low, as elsewhere in Europe.

(Richards et al., Am J Hum Genet, 2000)

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In a sample of 366 Greeks from thirteen locations in continental Greece, Crete, Lesvos and Chios, a single African haplogroup A Y-chromosome was found (0.3%). This marks the only instance to date of sub-Saharan DNA being discovered in Greece. In another sample of 42 Greeks, one sequence of the Siberian Tat-C haplogroup turned up. Note that other studies with larger sample populations have failed to detect this paternal marker in the Greek gene pool (e.g. Malaspina et al. 2000; Weale et al. 2001), and that its frequencies are actually much higher in Scandinavian and Slavic populations.

(Di Giacomo et al., Mol Phyl Evol, 2003;
Helgason et al., Am J Hum Genet, 2000)

* * *

In this autosomal DNA plot of genetic distances derived from 120 allele frequencies, Greeks fall entirely within the cluster containing Caucasoid populations (upper right corner), wedged between Basques and Northern Europeans, and far away from Africans and Asians:

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(Cavalli-Sforza, Menozzi and Piazza, 1994)

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A recent paper has detected clades of haplogroups J and E3b that were likely not part of pre-historic migrations into Europe, but rather spread by later historical movements. Greeks possess none of the lineages denoting North African ancestry within the last 5000 years, and have only 2% (3/148) of the marker J-M267, which may reflect more recent Middle Eastern admixture.

(Semino et al., Am J Hum Genet, 2004)

* * *

An analysis of 10 autosomal allele frequencies in Southern Europeans (including Greeks, Cretans and other islanders) and various Middle Eastern and North African populations revealed a "line of sharp genetic change [that] runs from Gibraltar to Lebanon," which has divided the Mediterranean into distinct northern and southern clusters since at least the Neolithic period. The authors conclude that "gene flow was more the exception than the rule," attributing this result to "a joint product of initial geographic isolation and successive cultural divergence, leading to the origin of cultural barriers to population admixture."

(Simoni et al., Hum Biol, 1999)

[Ellinas]

The racial continuity of the Greeks is something very natural. I don't see why some people call it "unique" or "remarkable". And the Greeks are not the only ones who have a racial continuity of more than 2000 years. Someone who knows Greek history can easily conclude that the past immigrations of foreign peoples to Greece was not able to change the (cultural, linguistic and racial) identity of the Greeks. Racial mixture was extremely difficult for the known reasons (The existance of Sklavinies with the Slavs, religious difference with the Turks etc. etc.) The only people who tried to present theories about the "racial admixture in Greece" besides Fallmelayer are Albanian and Skopian nationalists, a few Nordicist neo-nazis and so-called lefty progressives race deniers. Their arguments are not worth of connotation.

[Prokomenos]

Absolutely I agree with you Ellinas. As we can tell for some reason everyone wants a piece of our Greek history. The Skopjian such as Maknews.com are on a propaganda mission do to whatever it takes to discredit us from our Macedonian heritage.

We all know how the story goes about the Skopjians. They are claiming that they are the real Macedonians and if anyone knows history of the Greeks they will know that those Skopjiani have absolutely nothing to do with Hellenic Macedonian history. If anything half of the Skopjians are actually slavasized Greeks. Anyways its a shame that in this modern day that we Greeks face such childish issues. We all know the truth that only Greeks are Macedonian and Macedonia is Greece!

[Psaltis]

They are nothing but brainwashed Slavs the Skopjians. I also agree that half of them are actually Greek were as you say slavasized. Anyways FYROM dont really have an identity that they can call their own. That whole country is a big mix. No one looks like the other meaning no characteristic traits. They have a massive propoganda campaign on the internet attempting to make people think that they are victims and that Greece is an aggressor. It is real real bad bad problem.

[Greece4Ever]

Everybody wants to be Greek can you blame them seriously c'mon!

[Δωριεύς]

Unfortunately we have to face some greek authors and historians about the modern greek population as well. I don't know if anyone has read the book "Λαοί των Βαλκανίων" by Vasilis Rafailidis. He is one of these "objective historians" who say nothing good about Greece and Greeks.

The fact is that the researches have shown that there is a strong continuity between modern and ancient greek people in terms of language, culture and genetics. Ancient Greeks were not nordic but even if they were the climate here would have changed their colours into the dark of the mediterraneans.

[Δωριεύς]

Skopjians are a mixture of people. They are a mixture of Slavs (Serbians mainly), Albanians, Bulgarians and Greeks. They speak a bulgarian dialect and they would like to have a strong backround in order to exist. Macedonians in the ancient times were the people who lived in Macedonia. They were not a special race or nation. Many peoples used to live in ancient Macedonia like Greeks (who were the majority) Illyrians, Thracians etc. Alexander the Great was a Greek-Macedonian. Macedonia was always a multiethnic region even during the roman-byzantine-modern times until the 20th century. In modern times Macedonia was inhabited by Greeks, Slavs, Bulgarians, Jews, Turks.

[Ellinas]

Originally Posted by Δωριεύς
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Ancient Greeks were not nordic but even if they were the climate here would have changed their colours into the dark of the mediterraneans.

Exactly. Nordics don't have the biological structure to "survive" a permanent occupation in a climate like the one of Greece. You can see it with Scandinavians or English who come here for summer vacation. After a week of intense sun exposure their skin is harrased unnaturally. As I said the Nordicist theories are not worth of connotation and they are only supported by neo-nazis who don't have any scientific or hostorical proof.

And I understand what you are saying about the modern race deniers (so-called progressives) of Greece. I don't know much about Rafailidis, but I know related books written by that weirdo Dimou who tries to prove Fallmelayer's theories corerct, even if genetics already proved them wrong.

[Δωριεύς]

Yeah only Neo-Nazis claimed that all the famous nations (including Greeks) were nordics.

Fallmerayer theories are proven to be incorrect by tens of historians and anthropologists around the world not only because he exaggerated but he misunderstood the sources he used as well.